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	<title>Comments on: LifeTrac II &#8211; Frame</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/</link>
	<description>Building tools for replicable, open source, post-scarcity resilient communities</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:45:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-82272</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-82272</guid>
		<description>Hi Ian. Thanks for the info on the quick attach system. I&#039;ve been studying it to try and replicate it so that LifeTrac II can use all Bobcat and other 3rd party attachments but I can&#039;t quite see the way the attachment works at the bottom of the system, where the pins latch/lock the attachment into place.. Do you know of some extra links that show this part? Marcin says you have one of these machines? Could you film/document briefly the locking of an attachment in action?
Best regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian. Thanks for the info on the quick attach system. I&#8217;ve been studying it to try and replicate it so that LifeTrac II can use all Bobcat and other 3rd party attachments but I can&#8217;t quite see the way the attachment works at the bottom of the system, where the pins latch/lock the attachment into place.. Do you know of some extra links that show this part? Marcin says you have one of these machines? Could you film/document briefly the locking of an attachment in action?<br />
Best regards</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: LifeTrac II Design &#124; Open Source Ecology</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-79305</link>
		<dc:creator>LifeTrac II Design &#124; Open Source Ecology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 05:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-79305</guid>
		<description>[...] last few days we have been wotking on the second open source tractor protytype - LifeTrac II &#8211; on Blender.  Here is the progress so [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] last few days we have been wotking on the second open source tractor protytype &#8211; LifeTrac II &#8211; on Blender.  Here is the progress so [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marcin</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-78166</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 19:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-78166</guid>
		<description>Ian, thanks for the hints on the quick attach. We&#039;ll modify our designs with the new learnings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, thanks for the hints on the quick attach. We&#8217;ll modify our designs with the new learnings.</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-78087</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 08:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-78087</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m posting in two parts since large comments get bounced with no indication from wordpress.

another video, shows quick attach @1:20 : http://www.meyerproducts.com/Portals/0/Meyer/skid-steer/SkidSteer-EOU.jpg

This diagram illustrates the attachment process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_Bn9z41Lk
the handles I mentioned can be seen in step 4

this link discusses the history of quick attach, and indicates that since 1994 all manufacturers adhere to the same geometry - there is also another dimensioned image:
http://www.bucketproinc.com/products/universalquickattachsystemqas.php

This video shows the clam shell bucket I mentioned, and how it is used: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VE9eBktQQ4
they also are called &quot;combo bucket&quot; or &quot;4-in-1 bucket&quot;
image version: http://www.attachmentscjj.com/html/combination-fourinone-bucket.html

There are many companies that sell their own attachments to work with this system, this is just one example: http://www.everythingattachments.com/default.asp
Several companies have a track system that fits over the tires. You may want to reverse engineer this if you plan to have optional tracks in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m posting in two parts since large comments get bounced with no indication from wordpress.</p>
<p>another video, shows quick attach @1:20 : <a href="http://www.meyerproducts.com/Portals/0/Meyer/skid-steer/SkidSteer-EOU.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.meyerproducts.com/Portals/0/Meyer/skid-steer/SkidSteer-EOU.jpg</a></p>
<p>This diagram illustrates the attachment process: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_Bn9z41Lk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_Bn9z41Lk</a><br />
the handles I mentioned can be seen in step 4</p>
<p>this link discusses the history of quick attach, and indicates that since 1994 all manufacturers adhere to the same geometry &#8211; there is also another dimensioned image:<br />
<a href="http://www.bucketproinc.com/products/universalquickattachsystemqas.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.bucketproinc.com/products/universalquickattachsystemqas.php</a></p>
<p>This video shows the clam shell bucket I mentioned, and how it is used: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VE9eBktQQ4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VE9eBktQQ4</a><br />
they also are called &#8220;combo bucket&#8221; or &#8220;4-in-1 bucket&#8221;<br />
image version: <a href="http://www.attachmentscjj.com/html/combination-fourinone-bucket.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.attachmentscjj.com/html/combination-fourinone-bucket.html</a></p>
<p>There are many companies that sell their own attachments to work with this system, this is just one example: <a href="http://www.everythingattachments.com/default.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.everythingattachments.com/default.asp</a><br />
Several companies have a track system that fits over the tires. You may want to reverse engineer this if you plan to have optional tracks in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-78086</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 08:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-78086</guid>
		<description>I did a few quick searches and perhaps you will not need a video. Please let me know if anything is unclear though, and I will still be happy to clarify with a video of my machine.

This thread discusses quick attach, but also provides a dimensioned image of the quick attach plate: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/113183-skid-steer-quick-connect-all.html

This video shows some of the functionality on a newer skid steer :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Yakrbo6hc
@ 0:20 they show the attach/detach process - on mine there are also two handles that lock down to hold the attachment in place, this appears to be automated on newer models though
@ 0:40 the red bar on the side is the safety bar that I mentioned to lock the bucket in place while you are under it
@ 1:02 you can see the cockpit with the two control sticks I mentioned</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a few quick searches and perhaps you will not need a video. Please let me know if anything is unclear though, and I will still be happy to clarify with a video of my machine.</p>
<p>This thread discusses quick attach, but also provides a dimensioned image of the quick attach plate: <a href="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/113183-skid-steer-quick-connect-all.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/113183-skid-steer-quick-connect-all.html</a></p>
<p>This video shows some of the functionality on a newer skid steer :<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Yakrbo6hc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Yakrbo6hc</a><br />
@ 0:20 they show the attach/detach process &#8211; on mine there are also two handles that lock down to hold the attachment in place, this appears to be automated on newer models though<br />
@ 0:40 the red bar on the side is the safety bar that I mentioned to lock the bucket in place while you are under it<br />
@ 1:02 you can see the cockpit with the two control sticks I mentioned</p>
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		<title>By: Marcin</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-78012</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 19:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-78012</guid>
		<description>Elmo, with Blender, we are figuring out the details by being able to observe them visually. The second step is being able to parametrize the frame. How can we use OpenSCAD, which doesn&#039;t have a graphical user interface, if we don&#039;t have the parameters initially? I guess the fine point is that we are not modeling from parameters, but actually designing in Blender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elmo, with Blender, we are figuring out the details by being able to observe them visually. The second step is being able to parametrize the frame. How can we use OpenSCAD, which doesn&#8217;t have a graphical user interface, if we don&#8217;t have the parameters initially? I guess the fine point is that we are not modeling from parameters, but actually designing in Blender.</p>
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		<title>By: Elmo</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77909</link>
		<dc:creator>Elmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 03:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77909</guid>
		<description>Unless you wan&#039;t to use the animation system or game engine in Blender, OpenSCAD might be a more suitable general CAD software for this kind of workflow. It allows exact programmatic modeling. Parametrization is natural, since it&#039;s all code.

It&#039;s very easy to get into, at least for coders, so not much cost in trying. Definitely add to your toolchain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless you wan&#8217;t to use the animation system or game engine in Blender, OpenSCAD might be a more suitable general CAD software for this kind of workflow. It allows exact programmatic modeling. Parametrization is natural, since it&#8217;s all code.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s very easy to get into, at least for coders, so not much cost in trying. Definitely add to your toolchain.</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77672</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 19:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77672</guid>
		<description>Marcin, yes I have a video camera and I can document the quick attach system. It may take me a few days, but I&#039;ll post to the wiki when I have it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcin, yes I have a video camera and I can document the quick attach system. It may take me a few days, but I&#8217;ll post to the wiki when I have it.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcin</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77584</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 03:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77584</guid>
		<description>Ian, this is interesting. We already have a quick-connect pressure gauge, and we plan on making most of LifeTrac II with quick-disconnect hoses. We will probably be able to use the &#039;hydraulic scale&#039; to weigh heavy objects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, this is interesting. We already have a quick-connect pressure gauge, and we plan on making most of LifeTrac II with quick-disconnect hoses. We will probably be able to use the &#8216;hydraulic scale&#8217; to weigh heavy objects.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcin</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77583</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 03:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77583</guid>
		<description>Ian, do you have a video camera? Can you document your quick attach system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, do you have a video camera? Can you document your quick attach system?</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77478</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 07:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77478</guid>
		<description>One other thing I forgot to mention:
I&#039;ve not done this on my machine, but you can use hydraulics (on lifetrac or elsewhere) as a cheap but fairly accurate scale to weigh heavy objects by looking at the pressure differential in the fluid - e.g. you may want to weigh large amounts of grain, scrap iron for the forge, etc.

here is one of many low tech methods described on the internet:
http://www.caf.wvu.edu/~forage/library/forglvst/wvusite/hydrauli.htm

although a microcontroller solution could produce something much nicer that is part of the tractor control panel 

weight data could even improve safety by letting the operator know (or auto correct center of mass) if they are in dangerous conditions based on a feed back loop using 3 axis accelerometers and bucket weight - my machine is a few years old so this may already be a common feature on some of the newer machines</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing I forgot to mention:<br />
I&#8217;ve not done this on my machine, but you can use hydraulics (on lifetrac or elsewhere) as a cheap but fairly accurate scale to weigh heavy objects by looking at the pressure differential in the fluid &#8211; e.g. you may want to weigh large amounts of grain, scrap iron for the forge, etc.</p>
<p>here is one of many low tech methods described on the internet:<br />
<a href="http://www.caf.wvu.edu/~forage/library/forglvst/wvusite/hydrauli.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.caf.wvu.edu/~forage/library/forglvst/wvusite/hydrauli.htm</a></p>
<p>although a microcontroller solution could produce something much nicer that is part of the tractor control panel </p>
<p>weight data could even improve safety by letting the operator know (or auto correct center of mass) if they are in dangerous conditions based on a feed back loop using 3 axis accelerometers and bucket weight &#8211; my machine is a few years old so this may already be a common feature on some of the newer machines</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77475</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 06:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77475</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply Marcin. I was told that the quick coupling systems were the same among the different skid steer vendors to allow interoperability - but this information may be wrong. Presuming this is true and it is a good quick coupling system, I wondered if it made sense to use the same quick coupling on LifeTrac - hence adapter plates would not be needed.

When I have needed to build something in the past I often try to reverse engineer as much prior art as possible. Perhaps you have already done this, but if you have the access it may be informative to sketch or videotape a minimal tear down of some of the other newer machines (CAT, IR, John Deere, etc). If I lived closer I would gladly offer my CAT.

Some other useful items on my skid steer:
1. Auto bucket leveling regardless of the machine spatial state - maybe this is done with an accelerometer and a PID loop?
2. there is a safety bar that locks down and protects you if e.g. the hydraulics give out while I&#039;m working under the bucket
3. a roll cage over the driver can be helpful since I&#039;ve had a few dangerous moments with heavy bucket loads on the hilly terrain in my area  - I suppose this could be a removable option on your design though
4. The controls are two joysticks/flight-sticks and I&#039;ve found this a fairly intuitive design - one for movement and the other for attachment control
5. a full day in it and you will feel beat up - I wish my machine had air shocks or some other dampening system under the seat, maybe even ferrofluid/magnetic dampening? ferrofluid seems like it would be easy to make: oil carrier + Fe3O4

Since you are considering the next version of Lifetrac - I thought I would throw a few comments out on the things I (dis)like about the machine I have, I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve accumulated many more from active use of LifeTracI
Best of luck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply Marcin. I was told that the quick coupling systems were the same among the different skid steer vendors to allow interoperability &#8211; but this information may be wrong. Presuming this is true and it is a good quick coupling system, I wondered if it made sense to use the same quick coupling on LifeTrac &#8211; hence adapter plates would not be needed.</p>
<p>When I have needed to build something in the past I often try to reverse engineer as much prior art as possible. Perhaps you have already done this, but if you have the access it may be informative to sketch or videotape a minimal tear down of some of the other newer machines (CAT, IR, John Deere, etc). If I lived closer I would gladly offer my CAT.</p>
<p>Some other useful items on my skid steer:<br />
1. Auto bucket leveling regardless of the machine spatial state &#8211; maybe this is done with an accelerometer and a PID loop?<br />
2. there is a safety bar that locks down and protects you if e.g. the hydraulics give out while I&#8217;m working under the bucket<br />
3. a roll cage over the driver can be helpful since I&#8217;ve had a few dangerous moments with heavy bucket loads on the hilly terrain in my area  &#8211; I suppose this could be a removable option on your design though<br />
4. The controls are two joysticks/flight-sticks and I&#8217;ve found this a fairly intuitive design &#8211; one for movement and the other for attachment control<br />
5. a full day in it and you will feel beat up &#8211; I wish my machine had air shocks or some other dampening system under the seat, maybe even ferrofluid/magnetic dampening? ferrofluid seems like it would be easy to make: oil carrier + Fe3O4</p>
<p>Since you are considering the next version of Lifetrac &#8211; I thought I would throw a few comments out on the things I (dis)like about the machine I have, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve accumulated many more from active use of LifeTracI<br />
Best of luck</p>
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		<title>By: Marcin</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77342</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 03:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77342</guid>
		<description>Ian, thanks for your comment. We are making provisions for adapter plates for other recognized machines. If we assume that there are many different types of quick coupling systems, it appears that the best route for interoperability with other off-shelf implements would be to fabricate adapters that would fit on our quick attach plate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, thanks for your comment. We are making provisions for adapter plates for other recognized machines. If we assume that there are many different types of quick coupling systems, it appears that the best route for interoperability with other off-shelf implements would be to fabricate adapters that would fit on our quick attach plate.</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2010/05/lifetrac-ii-frame/comment-page-1/#comment-77180</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 19:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfarmtech.org/weblog/?p=1842#comment-77180</guid>
		<description>I recently received a used Caterpillar 226B. It operates on a hydraulic drive train and conforms to a geometry that allows the use of attachments from any of the major skid steer vendors (bobcat, etc.). It seems very similar in principle to the LifeTrac concept except the power unit is not modular. I wondered if you have considered using the same attachment geometry so that you can optionally use attachments meant for other skid steers or apply your attachment designs to other skid steers? I think tractors have a similar philosophy with the PTO hookup.

I&#039;m still learning how to use the machine to it&#039;s full ability, but I have found the following attachments very helpful:
1. clam shell bucket (grading and other tasks are made much easier than a simple bucket)
2. set of forks - there is always something heavy to move e.g. engine blocks, transmissions, etc. and a pallet is an easy way to store/move it
3. auger - it is useful for fencing, but also planting fruit trees, or setting concrete piers

For storage of the skid steer and many other items (I&#039;m using one for Hay), I have found the 40&#039; shipping containers very useful and economical compared to building the same volume. A 40&#039;x8&#039;x9&#039; container can be found for under $2000 in decent condition. The 20&#039; containers are only slightly less money for half the storage space. Just paint with rustoleum or killz oil based primer, and cover the roof with aluminum mobile home roof coating (to reflect back most of the heat).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently received a used Caterpillar 226B. It operates on a hydraulic drive train and conforms to a geometry that allows the use of attachments from any of the major skid steer vendors (bobcat, etc.). It seems very similar in principle to the LifeTrac concept except the power unit is not modular. I wondered if you have considered using the same attachment geometry so that you can optionally use attachments meant for other skid steers or apply your attachment designs to other skid steers? I think tractors have a similar philosophy with the PTO hookup.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still learning how to use the machine to it&#8217;s full ability, but I have found the following attachments very helpful:<br />
1. clam shell bucket (grading and other tasks are made much easier than a simple bucket)<br />
2. set of forks &#8211; there is always something heavy to move e.g. engine blocks, transmissions, etc. and a pallet is an easy way to store/move it<br />
3. auger &#8211; it is useful for fencing, but also planting fruit trees, or setting concrete piers</p>
<p>For storage of the skid steer and many other items (I&#8217;m using one for Hay), I have found the 40&#8242; shipping containers very useful and economical compared to building the same volume. A 40&#8242;x8&#8242;x9&#8242; container can be found for under $2000 in decent condition. The 20&#8242; containers are only slightly less money for half the storage space. Just paint with rustoleum or killz oil based primer, and cover the roof with aluminum mobile home roof coating (to reflect back most of the heat).</p>
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